
##17150 @!BURNS : It 's time for our " Quick Takes " on the Media . Headline number one : " Real Milestone or Artificial Mark ? " According to some in the media , an unfortunate milestone was reached this week in Iraq : the death of the 2,000 American soldiers - soldier , rather . On Tuesday , a military spokesman in Iraq sent this message to reporters there covering the war : " The 2,000 service members killed in Iraq supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom is not a milestone . It is an artificial mark on the wall set by individuals or groups with specific agendas and ulterior motives " - Jim . @!PINKERTON : I do n't agree with that . I think that the mind naturally gravitates towards numbers . That 's why we have anniversaries and lucky numbers . And we create a whole mythology around that . And that 's just the way our minds work . @!BURNS : And how about the foolishness , Neal , of this statement from the Pentagon , which is not going to be what they think @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ infuriate writers who now have their leads for their columns about the 2,000th. @!GABLER : Well , writers in the mainstream and on the left . I mean , people on the - for people on the right , including some people right here at FOX News , this is an arbitrary number . But I think Jim is absolutely right . I mean , 2,000 is not an arbitrary number , it 's a milestone . We do n't look at other milestones like how many Iraqi civilians have been killed , how many wounded we 've had - which is over 15,000 . We take numbers seriously because we take death seriously . @!THOMAS : Far more people were killed in a single day in World War II than in this . I think it 's artificial , it 's phony . I agree with the colonel who made the statement . @!GABLER : That 's arbitrary to compare those two . @!BURNS : " Quick Take " headline number two : " Warning : Do n't Try This at Home , Kids ! " Scenes like this , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in an uproar . Here 's some of what he said about Wilma coverage earlier this week : " My wife and I woke up at 5:00 this morning , and we see these characters on television . putting themselves in harm 's way . That does n't do much good either , creates a bad example of others . It is n't fun . It 's very dangerous . " I think he means it 's dangerous for viewers , Jane . Obviously , it 's dangerous for reporters/ . Is there something harmful about this kind of coverage , if you 're - if you 're watching it . @!HALL : Well , you know , Al Roker , from what I understand , fell over after being held - held down ( ph ) . @!THOMAS : He would n't have done that in his previous body , however . @!HALL : Right . Right . Anderson Cooper , you know , had - I think coming out of Katrina , there 's this daring-do image - Dan Rather made his reputation , as Walter Cronkite memorably put @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ his backside in water moccasin snakes ? It 's a way to make a career , it 's kind of a child of the foreign correspondents in the trench coat . I agree with Governor Bush , it 's dangerous to set an example like that . @!THOMAS : Well , I do n't know . I do n't know how many people - I do n't know if you could prove this . People sitting at home - Oh , look , so and so is there reporting , let 's all get on our surfboards and go try the waves . @!PINKERTON : Let Jeb Bush worry about getting re-elected . Let reporters worry about getting ratings . They 're just different spheres and they should stay separate . @!BURNS : " Quick Takes " headline number three : " Rosa Parks Dies at 92 . " Forty-nine years and 11 months ago , Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a Montgomery , Alabama , bus to a white man . For that act , and its repercussions in the past half century , she has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ died earlier this week , and the media have been honoring her . Neal , enough and accurately ? @!GABLER : I think generally accurately , and yes , enough . What I find interesting about this is that 50 years ago , this boycott was barely covered in the media . And now 50 years later , her death is covered everywhere , which - which shows that there 's penance in the media , number one . And shows that while the media is not in the forefront of justice , eventually , if you give them enough time - like 50 years - they may catch up . @!THOMAS : Here was a woman of great dignity who committed a courageous - singularly courageous act with no television cameras around , no media hype . Today , there would have been a press release saying , In two days , I 'm going to do this on the bus . And you would have had all your supporters from the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons in , doing their thing . This was an individual , courageous act @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ remembered and commemorated . @!PINKERTON : But again , she is a hero . And as her death is worth noting and recalling , but it 's still a little bit arbitrary . There was hundreds of people , thousands of people involved in the civil rights movement , but we 've chosen to pick her - not unlike the number 2,000th , just because it 's one thing we can get our minds around , as opposed to a more diffused movement . @!BURNS : A symbol for something larger . @!HALL : But it was the spark that started the Montgomery bus boycott . Martin Luther King was a 26-year-old minister . It went all the way to the Supreme Court . I think it was a signal movement . And I agree , she was such a dignified heroine , and it seems to have been a genuine moment of saying , Enough . I mean , there 's even a rap song , and children do hear about her . I think she is a legitimate ( INAUDIBLE ) . @(CROSSTALK) @!GABLER : Rosa Parks is the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , it did n't take the media 50 years , though . Because shortly after that , we saw those horrifying images of the fire hoses , of Bull Conner and other people turned . @!GABLER : Not shortly after , nearly 10 years after that . @!BURNS : Was it that long after ? @(CROSSTALK) @!BURNS : But not 50 years . Not 50 years . @!GABLER : No . But it took a very long time for the media to catch on to that story , and that is not to the credit of the media . @(CROSSTALK) @!PINKERTON : I do n't agree with that at all . I think the media were all over that , that 's one - the high-water mark of the media in the minds of the left was the 50s and Edward R. Murrow and the civil-rights movement . The police dogs was 1963 , so it was later . But there was not shortage of coverage in between about the issue itself . @!THOMAS : You talk about danger on hurricanes . It was dangerous , especially in the South , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , because the Klan and other racists said , Reporters were communists . I was in the middle of some of that . It was a very dangerous time . @!GABLER : Look at the coverage . That 's all I can say . @!BURNS : We have to take one break . When we come back , it 'll be your turn . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @!BURNS : About a federal shield law for journalists , on behalf of which " The New York Times ' " Judith Miller recently testified , here 's Warren from Tavernier , Florida : " After all the scandals of fraud and false reporting by journalists in the last few years , it makes no sense to give this particular group a more special privilege than current laws provide . " Ray from Winston-Salem , North Carolina : " So Judith Miller claims that without having such a law , and being forced to divulge her sources , she 'd be out of a job . That right there is the best reason I can think of for not having such a law . " And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of The New York Times ' would be complete by removing Judith Miller , is like pulling a single quill from a porcupine and calling it a billiard ball . " About the trial of Saddam Hussein , which will resume next month , here is Denise from St. Charles , Missouri : " Are we interested in watching Saddam 's trial ? Absolutely . Some of us actually have long memories . " But here 's a different take , from Gus , in Moriches , New York : " Saddam Hussein is no Hitler . In that regard , he 's an invention of Bush propaganda to justify an ugly mess of a war that did n't have to be waged . " But , same topic , from Bill in Winter Springs , Florida : " No one on your panel mentioned the media 's Michael Moore mindset that prevents emphasis on any story that might justify the war in Iraq , and thereby provide aid and comfort to President Bush . " Finally , about the funniest moment on a television news program that I can ever @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ " The panel and all the other media types missed the whole point of that NBC reporter covering the flood in New Jersey . It 's quite obvious she was trying to make a point of the Supreme Court case : Row vs . Wade . " Great line , Michael , despite Jane 's moan . Thanks for sending it to us . For those of you who want to send us other messages , here 's the address : it is newswatch 
##17151 @!BURNS : It 's time now for our " Quick Takes " on the Media . Headline number one : " The Royal Treatment . " Charles and Camilla are touring the U.S. these days after British newspapers predicted that Americans would be indifferent toward their visit . Well , the - " The New York Post " was n't indifferent . Here is the headline from its Wednesday edition . @!OK-we-know-how- " T# @!THOMAS : Apparently not . Only a few people were hanging over the balcony at the White House when they arrived . Most of the media still wants Diana and John Travolta dancing together . I mean , look , they loved the youth thing that - that Diana represented . But here 's something that Charles did : he hates the press , but he actually reached out to the American press , inviting them to his organic farm to see his pigs and these other things that he has , inviting some of them to one of his mansions for lunch . @!BURNS : Are you going ? @!THOMAS : No , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on the list . But they still slam him anyway . They want Diana back , it made a much better story . @!HALL : I think apart from Diana , who was one heck of a first wife to have to deal with , there - there continues to be this - this - this label of being a frump , comparatively . And I think it shows how we feel about women , still . People who were interviewed in Washington D.C. , school kids - a whole bunch of kids I saw whom - whom they were - who were visited by her , said she did n't look as bad as I thought . @!PINKERTON : Of course , a lot of the cattiest comments were from women , like Robyn Given at " The Washington Post . " This story gives the media the chance to be superficial - superficial without being shallow , because there 's no depth to the story to begin with . @!GABLER : Reporters judge her on the basis of how she looks and on her age . I mean , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ aesthetics over substance . @!THOMAS : Like a TV anchor . @!BURNS : That was a great line . " Quick Take " headline number two : " Big Company , Big Headaches , New Solution ? " Wal-Mart , the world 's biggest retailer , has long complained about bad press . To try to combat it , they 're now going to do what politicians do : set up a war room to respond to negative reports . Among those they 've hired to staff the war room are people who used to work in the Bush and Kerry campaigns . Will it work ? @!GABLER : Well , also they have a tobacco - a former tobacco spokesman ( INAUDIBLE ) @(CROSSTALK) @!GABLER : Look it - they want to change their image , but they do n't want to change their policy . And surprisingly , the media has been on them about their policies . I would advise they do the latter rather than the former . @!PINKERTON : I think this whole notion of a war room is kind of , A , unfortunate for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ gift to the media . If we - if we all agreed on the Alito situation , that the media love a conflict , then we 're - the me - Wal-Mart and the media are serving up another one right here . @!BURNS : Wal-Mart gets worse press probably than any company in this country , Jane . @!HALL : Well , it took a long time . " The Los Angeles Times " did some very interesting reporting on what actually happens to employment and wages when they come in . There have been stories about how - alleging that they encourage their employees to get health insurance from the state . It took a long time . They 've been a huge employer for a very long time . It 's ( ph ) this documentary by the guy who gave us a few other documentaries that is prompting this , I believe . @!BURNS : Jane has just activated the war room with those comments now - Cal . @!THOMAS : Wal-Mart 's got a problem , anybody who is on jibjab.com and sees this incredible parody @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all these people who have lost their jobs as a result of sending the - manufacturing these goods that Wal-Mart sells to China , they 've got a bigger problem than public relations . @!BURNS : " Quick Takes " headline number three : " All in the Family . " @!FOX-News-Channel-C# @(BEGIN-VIDEO-CLIP) @!MIKE-WALLACE-CBS- : Reporters are in the business because they want to be - first of all , they 're patriots just as much as any conservative - even a liberal reporter is a patriot , wants the best for this country . And people - you know , your fair and balanced friends at FOX do n't fully understand that . @(END-VIDEO-CLIP) @!BURNS : Jane , interesting that the first point that would come to his mind about why a reporter is a reporter is to serve patriotic ends . Well , you know , I tend to agree with him . And there was a time after 9/11 when a lot of people were wearing flag pins and declaring their patriotism , and if you seemed to be criticizing the war in Iraq , people went after @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that - not necessarily at FOX , but just that - that has been the climate . @!BURNS : Well , at FOX too . @(CROSSTALK) @!THOMAS : I have two arms , one left , one right . When he said , " your fair and balanced friends at FOX , " that betrays the elitism that most conservatives have seen in the big media . They 've lost the battle . They 're no longer the gatekeepers . People can get different information from the big - than just from the three big networks . And they 're still in denial about this . And as long as they 're in denial , they can change all the anchors they want , they can change all the news network presidents they want , they 're going to lose , and deservedly so . @!GABLER : Well , I 'm not going to address that . But I think what Wallace says is nonsense . Look it , there is many different reasons for people to be in news as there are , you know , the number of reporters @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the list , which is no knock - I mean , it should n't be all that high on the list . They 're here to serve the public . Patriotism is n't necessarily a way of serving the public . @!PINKERTON : I will always remember , in Jody Powell , who was Jimmy Carter 's press secretary , his memoirs , he said , reporters used to get so mad at him , they 'd refused to stand during the national anthem , or the Pledge of Allegiance . There were just - that was how mad they were . Which , I think , speaks to an attitude they have toward patriotic celebrations . @!HALL : Patriotism means love of country , and this profession 's protected in the Constitution as a watchdog for people . I think it 's a patriotic job . I disagree with Neal . @!GABLER : But - but let 's not - well , we talk about " they . " It 's not " they . " There are hundreds of thousands of these guys . There 's no " they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ entire interview with dad Mike , if you are so inclined , on this weekend 's " Fox News Sunday . " @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @!BURNS : About the indictment of Scooter Libby in the CIA leak case , here is G.P. from Austin , Texas : " The moral of the story is do n't give any interviews to the press or to any newsperson . Keep what one knows to one 's self . " About the death of the 2,000th American soldier in Iraq , here is Christopher from in Quincy , Illinois : " The media may hype the 2,000 deaths in Iraq , but former Marines , like myself , and the vast majority of military personnel know that the 2,000 figure is not a milestone . " Ravi , from Hampton , Virginia : " Jim is right , we do wrap our minds around numbers . The clue in this case is which numbers get the attention . In the period that we suffered 2,000 tragic deaths in Iraq , approximately 100,000 have tragically died in traffic accidents here at home . No attention was given @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ death of Rosa Parks , here is Edith from Roanoke , Virginia : " Cal and Jane got it right about Rosa Parks . She was a woman of great dignity , and what she did on that bus defined a genuine moment . " About reporters covering hurricane , here 's Art from August , Georgia : " As a former member of the Air Force " Hurricane Hunters , " every time I see one of your newsmen attempting to stand outdoors while reporting hurricanes , I have to chuckle at the stupidity of it all . " And more viciously , from Donald , in Houston , Texas : " One day a reporter will be struck by an object moving at hurricane speed , a sign perhaps . When this happens , will the decapitation win that reporter a Peabody or Philip Meyer Journalism Award ? In any case , I promise to watch the footage more than once . " As a result of Hurricane Wilma , a lot of people lost power for a time , including Gloria , who lives in Miami : " @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the electricity back . It was a nightmare to be without my Fox News Channel . I think I am addicted . And it must be true , because I even missed Neal . " Your addiction , Gloria , must be severe . Here 's our address : newswatch 
##17152 ERIC @!BURNS , FOX NEWS HOST : This week , on " FOX News Watch , " what kind of treatment is the new Supreme Court nominee getting from the media ? Are these two getting the royal treatment ? Do the media hate big drug companies ? Wal-Mart has a plan to get the media on its side . And Mike Wallace joins our panel - well , sort of , and briefly . First the headlines , and then us. @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @!BURNS : Here are the last four people - truly , the last four names on the list in the line of succession to the British throne : Jim Pinkerton of " Newsday " , syndicated columnist Cal Thomas , Jane Hall of the American University , and media writer Neal Gabler . I 'm Eric Burns . " FOX News Watch " is coming right up . Now , Charles and Camilla are currently in the United States . We will get to media treatment of their visit later . First , media treatment of someone who is potentially much more important to Americans @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ nomination of Judge Samuel A. Alito Jr . as associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States . @(@!END-VIDEO-CLIP) @!BURNS : Now that was President Bush on Monday . On Tuesday , the headlines began to appear , and look at all of the military metaphors . You 'd think it was coverage of Iraq , not a new Supreme Court nominee . So let 's agree there 's a battle over Alito among politicians . Neal , is there also a battle ahead among journalists , or do I have a verb-tense problem , and has the journalistic battle already begun ? @!NEAL-GABLER-MEDIA : Oh , I think it 's already begun . I mean , I think the press has to decide fundamentally whether this is a political story or a legal story . In the Miers case that was easy because there was no legal trail , so it became a political story . Here there 's a very long legal trail , but guess what ? Politics again has won out . Why ? Because it 's a more dramatic story . It 's more @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ law . And because it 's easier to cover . @!BURNS : Yes , it 's like elections . You know , we talk about the horse- race coverage of elections . @!GABLER : Exactly right . @!BURNS : Instead of how , you know , this man has voted on these particular issues , who likes him , who does n't like him , that 's the way we tend to go , Cal , is n't it ? @!CAL-THOMAS-SYNDIC : Well , it is . And there 's an interesting synergy here between the media and the special-interest groups . Each of them thrive off of controversy . The special-interest groups , left and right , to raise money for their various causes , and the media because it helps sells newspapers . But there 's something else underlying this that I think - a subtle bigotry that I 've seen not only in the AP and NPR , but in some other places . Judge Alito is a Catholic , and there are a number of media outlets who are not so subtly saying or carrying without challenging @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Supreme Court ? That would make five . As if there is something wrong with that . @!JIM-PINKERTON- " NE : I agree with that , that there has been an anti-Catholic , also anti-Italian bias in the media . I think that the creation of the word Scalito as a. @!BURNS : Yes . @!PINKERTON : . version of Scalia. @(CROSSTALK) @!GABLER : Let me just - may I just add here . @!PINKERTON : Can I finish what I was saying ? @!GABLER : That was a Republican talking point , what you 're giving them . @!PINKERTON : Actually it - but it 's been picked up by lots of places . And I think whoever said it first made an ethnic slur , and for some reason - imagine fusing , say , Breyer and Ginsburg 's names together , or if there had been two black justices - that people would be screaming anti-Semitism or racism . And I think legitimately . And I think they did that on the Italian thing , and I think it was wrong and I 'm glad to see the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on that . @!BURNS : Jim mentioned the Media Research Center . Jane , according to them , a reporter for ABC named Jennifer Yellen ( ph ) on " Good Morning America " Monday labeled Judge Alito a conservative five times in 50 seconds . Anything wrong with that ? @!THOMAS : So there . @!JANE-HALL-AMERICA : Well , you know , " The Wall Street Journal " also has said he has a conservative record . I think if someone has a conservative record - I do n't know if I 'd mention it 50 times . @!BURNS : That 's five times in 50 seconds . @!HALL : Right . I - I think there are a couple of things going on . I agree with Cal , the interest groups and the journalists are sort of in bed on this one because everybody likes a fight . I mean , as a citizen , I - John Dickerson had a funny column in " Slate , " saying this is the fight everyone 's been waiting for . I personally have not been waiting for this fight @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ somebody qualified on the court . The question is , if you 're a liberal and he 's qualified , do you vote for him and do you not vote for him ? I think it 's decisions on issues involving abortions , et cetera - Media Matters , which is the liberal counterpoint to Media Research Center - said that the media have said he has had mixed opinions on abortion , and that that 's not true . I 'd rather see discussion of that . @!PINKERTON : Well , the confusion - and Diane Sawyer on ABC was one of the worst at this - is to associate Scalito. @(CROSSTALK) @!GABLER : Holy cow ! @!PINKERTON : It just shows you how . @!GABLER : There was anti-Italian sentiment right there in that chair . @!BURNS : He 's been brainwashed . He 's off the hook . @!GABLER : Oh , absolutely . @!PINKERTON : I live in fear of saying Alito and saying - confusing him with the former mayor of San Francisco , Alioto . But anyway - so we have - we do make @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ them , as I will , for that mistake . But to make this point - Diane Sawyer makes it sound like Alito 's views - when he votes are reflective of his views . In fact , when he voted on the Planned Parenthood , for example , he was n't saying it was his view on abortion . He was saying that I stand up for the right of the people of Pennsylvania , the legislature and the governor , to make this law . Not his view , it 's their view . @!HALL : But you could also point out that he was the lone dissent on something , and it was struck down , this whole spousal-notification thing . That is a - that is , to people who are pro-choice , a worrisome decision . @!THOMAS : I fear that the battle is going to obscure the substance , and we 're not going to get very much reporting , good reporting , on the substance of what he believes . @!BURNS : And you say that based on the fact that this kind of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!THOMAS : Precisely . @!BURNS : It 's time for a break . When we come back . @!ANNOUNCER : Is Vioxx a painkiller or just a killer ? A big trial verdict is in , but did the media already decide ? Answers when " FOX News Watch " returns . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @!END-# 
##17153 @!BURNS : It 's time for our " Quick Takes " on the media . Headline number one : " First I Go To Jail For You , and Then You Fire Me ? " Well , she might not have been fired exactly , but Judith Miller and " The New York Times " have agreed that she will no longer work there . Miller is , of course , one of the key figures in the CIA leak case who went to jail until she revealed that her source was Scooter Libby , who 's also lost his job . When - when would you have fired her ? How long ago , Cal ? @!THOMAS : Judith Miller is not the problem at " The New York Times . " Bill Keller , the executive editor , is . And Arthur Sulzberger Jr . The stockholders ought to demand that both of them be dismissed . And if I had my druthers , I 'd bring back Abe Rosenthal , the former editor , who really was a journalist extraordinaire. @!HALL : Well , you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a letter to editor , having wanted her own op-ed piece . I mean , she is trying to write her own story . I 've been invited to two places in Washington and in New York where she 'll be speaking next week . She 's going to get some kind of big job , big book deal for having misreported and helped lead us into a war in Iraq . @!GABLER : I mean , I agree with Cal . She is a blot that will take decades to eradicate . @!PINKERTON : I agree with Cal too , except since the Sulzbergers own the paper , it 's going to be very hard to get the shareholders to oust Sulzberger . Look , Judith Miller is a terrible , terrible reporter . She 's proof of what happens when you make yourself the story . @!BURNS : " Quick Take " headline number two : " Sex Up 100% ! " Let me put that another way . A new study from the Kaiser Family Foundation finds that there are twice as many sex scenes on TV today @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ scenes per hour on primetime . Does it surprise you ? @!THOMAS : What are you starting with me for ? @!BURNS : Let me try that differently . Does it please you to know that , Jim ? @!PINKERTON : Well , it 's interesting , but - but for them to do that study and for us to do this segment is like sex education . You get credit for - you know , you denounce it even as you 're talking about . So you get - you win both ways . @!HALL : You know , I do n't need a study to know how much sex there is on television . As - as the parent of a young daughter coming up , the sexualizing of television and sexualizing of children is very , very disturbing . But I have to say , they count talk about sex , they count thinking about sex practically . What 's missing are - are not only any messages on the other side - that 's the other part of their story . There 's nothing about safe sex @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . @!THOMAS : There was a fascinating front page story in " Variety , " the showbiz magazine , this week that showed the target audience for this stuff , the 18-to-35 are leaving the networks . Their market share is down in this demographic . So the very people they 're trying to reach with the salacious sex are being turned off to the turn on . @!BURNS : Maybe we need even more sex to get them back , Neal . @!GABLER : FCC chases language , but this is a real problem for parents . And I think it 's going to be , you know , somehow regulated . This is a hypersexualized culture , and it 's dangerous . @!BURNS : And getting more so all the time , it appears . " Quick Take " headline number three : " Sorry , Whose Fault Did You Say This Is ? " After criticizing both management and his teammates for a variety of reasons and then getting suspended by the team , Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens apologized the other day at some length . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ whose really to blame . @(BEGIN-VIDEO-CLIP) @!DREW-ROSENHAUS-TE : The bottom line is , I do n't believe the media 's been fair to him . There are players - there are players who are arrested who violate the program when it comes to drugs or substance abuse , and they are not punished as seriously as he has been . @(END-VIDEO-CLIP) @!BURNS : But the media have not punished him . Am I missing something here , Jim ? @!PINKERTON : Well , some are punishing - some are trying . For example , Paul Attner , in " The Sporting News , " said - quote - " Why would anybody want T.O . " or his agent , this dork. @(CROSSTALK) @!PINKERTON : It 's time to call the bluff and to simply say , Look , a jerk is a jerk is a jerk . @!BURNS : Granted , but it was the National Football League - it was the Eagles who suspended him . It was n't the media who suspended him . @!PINKERTON : But some reporters , like Attner and also Rick Morrissey of " @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this , that it 's the media culture feeding this . @!BURNS : Jane , you 're a crazed Eagles fan . @(LAUGHTER) @!HALL : I was going to say , I come to this like a foreign correspondent . @(LAUGHTER) @!HALL : You know , I have to say , you know , I look at this guy , and I 'm thinking , first of all , He got into a fight with his bosses , which is a fight you usually do n't win . That 's the template I bring to this . But also , if he 's a jerk and he 's being paid - what ? -- $50 million over seven years by the Eagles , I think in some ways the agent may have had a point , considering some of the things that we laugh at and condone and even think are cool in pro-football players in this culture . I do think that 's a culture . @!THOMAS : The media helped make him famous , he did the famous " Desperate Housewives " thing the night - the one night @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ himself in. @!GABLER : It 's a symbiotic relationship between the press and Owens . They serve one another . @!BURNS : And we 're part of it , this show . @!GABLER : We sure are . @!BURNS : We got to stop that right now . Let 's try to keep Terrell Owens off this show in the future , shall we ? We will do our best . First , however , we have to take one more break . When we come back , it 'll be your turn . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @!BURNS : About media coverage of the Alito nomination to the Supreme Court , he is Jerry , from Fort Wayne , Indiana : " Neal inadvertently revealed the media 's faulty mindset when he said , The press has to decide whether this is a political issue of a legal issue . ' Sorry , Neal , your job is simply to present the facts to us . Even though it 's hard for the media to accept this , we , the American public , are smart enough to analyze situations and make the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ trial , here is Debbie , from Hayward , Wisconsin : " We love your show and watch weekly . I just found it comical that immediately following your segment on drug companies advertising on broadcast news shows , one of the commercials for attorney Sokolove and those suffering heart attacks from Vioxx . Coincidence ? " Yes , Debbie . Coincidence . About coverage of Charles and Camilla touring the United States , here 's Cindy , from Sacramento , California , " The Duchess looks OK . It seems to me that the press went after Diana 's clothing too , not long after she and Charles married . It seems to be a favorite sport . Compare Camilla to Laura Bush , and they 're just about the same . Seems right to me . " About Mike Wallace 's comments that journalists are patriots , we got a lot of mail , including this one from Mark in Riverton , New Jersey , who disagrees , " Journalists are embarrassed by patriotism and feel they are above such a quaint notion . They are , however , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but in accordance with their generally liberal ideas . After all , they care about us . Much like a farmer cares about his livestock . " Elmo , from Denver , Colorado : " It is not a sense of patriotism that causes one to enter the journalism profession . Simply put , journalism attracts people who are nosy by nature . I should know , I am married to one . " And finally , Susan , from Houston , Texas : " NAHHH . Journalism majors in college choose journalism because it is one of the few majors that does n't require them to take a math course . " You may be on to something there . Here 's - here 's our address . It is newswatch 
##17154 ERUC @!BURNS , FOX NEWS HOST : This week , on " FOX News Watch , " Paris is burning and Amman is exploding , and the media are watching . U.S. military atrocities in Iraq : fact or fiction ? Judith Miller needs a new job . Does primetime TV need this much sex ? And you just never know what the media are going to get blamed for next . First the headlines , then us. @(NEWSBREAK) @!BURNS : There are major stories for us to cover this week . Sorry , Terrell Owens . You 'll have to wait until last . Here 's the panel : Jim Pinkerton of " Newsday " , syndicated columnist Cal Thomas , Jane Hall of the American University , and media writer Neal Gabler . I 'm Eric Burns . " FOX News Watch " is coming right up . Paris continued to burn this week , and the flames have now spread to other parts of Europe . Trails of destruction like none we 've seen before . The pictures are amazing , the stories behind them @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ country is immense . But Cal , let us start with the coverage in France , where there is some interesting -- for want of a better word -- censorship going on . @!CAL-THOMAS-SYNDIC : Yes . @!BURNS : France 3 , one of the TV networks , decided a few days ago , it 's not going to show any more pictures of burning cars for fear it will give people incitement to burn more cars . @!THOMAS : Well , it makes you wonder , then , what incited them to burn the cars they burned if the coverage is somehow related to what they do or do n't do . The self-censorship , I think , is injurious to the French people . We practice it in this country as well . They won't. @!BURNS : Not to that extent . @(CROSSTALK) @!BURNS : In this country , we love the violence , do n't we ? @!THOMAS : Well , yes . But look , the verbiage , especially if you read the French newspapers - they - they refer to them as anger - angry people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . They do n't call them young Muslims . It 's - you know , to say that this fomented by just angry young people who are desperate for jobs is like a Ku Klux Klan rally in America is just a demonstration by angry white males instead of racists and bigots . It 's just covering up the obvious . @!BURNS : Well , let 's get to America . Jane , coverage of this story in this country , what are your thoughts ? @!JANE-HALL-AMERICA : Well , two of my colleagues here have written op-ed pieces about this . Tony Blankley wrote a piece talking about , can this come here ? I think there - it 's a huge problem for Europe . There 's a question whether these people - these young people are called Muslims . I mean , in Jim 's column , in Cal 's column they talked about the clash of the cultures . I think - in Tony Blankley 's column , he talks about we should n't give social welfare programs to these radical Muslims . And then other stories @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ racism in France . I think a lot depends on how this is framed . And I think in America we 're seeing it as , Oh my gosh , they 're coming over here . And that 's how it 's being framed . @!JIM-PINKERTON- " NE : I think that reporters were straining to see these riots in the prism of the 60s and 70s . Oh , they 're victims of racism and police brutality . @!BURNS : Reporters in this country . @!PINKERTON : Right . Exactly . And so Daniel Williams , the head - the subhead of his story in " The Washington Post " was - quoting some guy saying , " I am not a terrorist , I am a victim . " But on the other hand - and I wrote about this , and Cal did , and also Phyllis Chessler in frontpagemagazine.com - made the point this is more than just urban unrest of the type that we 're familiar with in our country . There is - there 's - with the Islamic element , there 's a - @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ called " a clash of civilizations emerging . " And that 's a much bigger story than just urban unrest and a few - lots of cars being set on fire in Paris . @!NEAL-GABLER-MEDIA : Maybe a bigger story , but perhaps not an accurate one . You used the word complicated . And I think - you know , I bash the American press all the time . But aside from some dunderheaded pieces like Tony Blankley 's - and I have to say , I disagree with both Cal 's and Jim 's pieces this week . @!THOMAS : Good . @!GABLER : . which cast this as a giant part of the war on terror . I think what we 've seen mostly in this country - articles like Robert Liken 's ( ph ) in " The L.A. Times , " like David Ignatius in " The Washington Post , " is a very nuanced reading that not only talks about unemployment there , but also talks about the whole French ethos , which makes no provision for minorities or the poor . And I - @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ often bash the press , but here they deserve high marks because they treated an issue with complexity , which is something they almost never do . @!THOMAS : There 's nothing complex about these people in the streets . You know , they said it ( ph ) - well , they 're without jobs . In the 60s , if we want to go back to that template that Jim raised , people were in the streets with placards about - that said " jobs " on them - " Give Us Jobs . " In the streets of Paris , very much uncovered by much of the media , they were n't shouting for jobs . They were chanting , " God is great . " @!PINKERTON : And they were also chanting , and according to " Newsweek , " " This is Baghdad . " And if that 's not . @!THOMAS : Right . @!PINKERTON : . the sense of linkage between these events around the world , what is ? @!GABLER : And see , I disagree completely with that , because I think @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , to its credit , that this is situation in which these people were born in France . They 've lived in France for a long time . But they do n't feel French . @(CROSSTALK) @!PINKERTON : Which only proves my point that tons of reporters are still locked into the whole old paradigm of . @(CROSSTALK) @!GABLER : Or proves the point that you 're locked into a new paradigm of right-wing , you know , extremism ( ph ) . @(CROSSTALK) @!BURNS : But it 's also been an amazing week , too , for scenes of violence from abroad , which involves three hotels , Jim , which exploded in Amman . I mean , we have seen - I think we have been , in this country , more engaged by violent pictures from abroad this week than we have in a very long time . @!PINKERTON : Another thing we got to come to grips with is the enemy , for lack of a better word , is as media savvy as anybody in America . And so I do n't doubt for a second @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Amman , Jordan - I stayed at that Grand Hyatt - will eventually pop up on the Internet someplace , and be a rallying cry for the enemy . @!HALL : I think this is really a problem for the media and a problem for this country because you 've got these bombings , you 've got these - Zarqawi taking credit for it . I think there 's also a clash of civilizations Islam , and - and we do n't really know how to deal with that as media either . @!BURNS : Hence the term complicated . We have to take a break . When we come back , we will tell this very controversial tale : @!ANNOUNCER : A U.S. Marines claims fellow soldiers committed terrible crimes in Iraq . And major media groups told his stories . But did they check for the truth ? The details and the facts when " FOX News Watch " returns . @!END-# 
##17155 @!BURNS : It 's time for our " Quick Takes " on the media . Headline number one : " Public Arguing at Public Broadcasting . " Ken Tomlinson , who until recently was the head of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting , which provides money for PBS programs , has been accused by investigators of interfering with the content of those programs . Investigators say he tried to make PBS more conservative , Tomlinson says he tried to make it more fair . And you say . @!THOMAS : Well , I know Ken Tomlinson , I 've had conversations with him before all of this about this . Now , what you have to understand about the Corporation for Public Broadcasting , PBS , it 's a maze . You just do n't call up somebody and say , Hey , put on this show . It does n't work that way . It 's a totally separate entity . But , under the mandate of CPB , one of the lines in their federal mandate - it 's the law - is that PBS is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and balanced . All he was trying to do was to make up for what was perceived by an awful lot of conservatives as unfairness and unbalance . @!GABLER : Oh , sure . That 's what 's he was trying to do . @!THOMAS : That 's what he was trying to do . @!HALL : Yes , well , first of all , your tax dollars at work . @!THOMAS : That 's right . @!HALL : This guy commissioned a secret survey to count - have somebody do what sounds like a pretty bogus survey on the guests on Bill Moyers . And if you were a Republican questioning the war in Iraq , you were viewed as a wild-eyed liberal in the count that they did . @!BURNS : Yes , and that 's just . @!HALL : He went behind - he went behind the board and did this . He paid - he used money to pay for it . I mean , this - this - the whole problem with PBS is that it has never been independent from this kind of interference . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out that Bill Moyers is biased to the left . I could have told him that for free . Look , Phil Hartman nailed this 100 percent 20 years ago on " Saturday Night Live " when he said that , you know , making a fake telethon for PBS . He said , Ronald Reagan causes AIDS , send money now . @!PBS-has-been-the-b# @!GABLER : Polls - polls in the public show otherwise . But here 's the most interesting - the irony in this ? This guy was appointed by Bill Clinton in the interest of bipartisanship , and he turned around and became a fanatical ideologue. @!BURNS : " Quick Take " headline number two : " Night , Night , Nightline . ' " After anchoring the ABC news program " Nightline " for all 25 years of its existence , Ted Koppel is leaving next Tuesday , with a legacy , Jane , of what ? @!HALL : This show started with the Iran hostage crisis . And it has been innovative , it has been good . I mean , he - he has done @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he did early stories about AIDS . Roone Arledge grabbed the time , and they ran with it for many years . It 's been a fine show for many years . @!THOMAS : He is the last one - Brokaw , Rather , Jennings and Koppel . He is the last one , and will turn the light out when he leaves the room on an era of journalism that will never return . @!BURNS : The show remains , Neal . Just in the hands of other anchors ( INAUDIBLE ) . @!GABLER : The show remains , but what the era of journalism that 's ending that Cal refers to , it 's seriousness . Seriousness is the most imperiled element on television and in television news . And it 's almost completely vanished . @!PINKERTON : I knew that this segment would be like " Four Weddings and a Funeral " in reverse . We 're all - everybody 's agreeing , Oh , it 's the end of an era . Boo hoo . Oh , you know , like Brokaw or Jennings - all the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Koppel was a good reporter and now there 's a lot of competition and he wo n't be missed . @!THOMAS : Ooh . @!BURNS : " Quick Take " headline number three : " Since All the Rest of the Stories on This Week 's Program Have Been Serious . " We present to you the cover of this week 's " People " magazine , the real cover , the 20th anniversary of " People " ' s " Sexiest Man Alive " issue . Cal . @!THOMAS : Mm-hmm ? Speaking of - yes . @!BURNS : This issue always sell well - why ? Why for 20 years have people wanted to know something this arbitrary , when it 's never been you ? @!THOMAS : Because we a re a superficial culture that focuses only on looks and money and stuff . It 's narcissism . We got - we got magazines , not only like " People " - " Us , " " We , " " Self " - what does that tell you ? But I 'll tell one thing : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have won in a - no problem . @!BURNS : Everybody's. @(LAUGHTER) @!GABLER : We 're speechless . @!BURNS : I see that 's not agreement , it 's speechlessness because it was such a preposterous statement . @!PINKERTON : I think - I think the point is , it 's not the sexiest person alive , it 's the sexiest story alive . And Matthew McConaughey is all tied up with Penelope Cruz , and of course she ' formerly with Tom Cruise , and Tom Cruise is now with Katie Holmes . It 's a juicy story . I think that 's why they pick it - for the quality of the story , not the actual appeal . @!BURNS : Who was it that just said seriousness is missing on news programs , the substance is missing . Jane , what do you think about this ? @!HALL : Well , it 's " People " magazine 's version of the swimsuit issue , which I , you know , gather has a high readership among men . Readership of " People " is largely women . I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ somebody a little younger . @!BURNS : Supposedly there 's a jinx , Neal . If you 're the sexiest man alive one year , next year you 're a bum . @!GABLER : And I think that there is a jinx here , and I think it says something about popular culture , that when somebody rises too high , we look to pull them right back . It 's the humbling element of democratic culture . @!BURNS : Well , you made that relatively serious , and it did n't deserve to be . One more break . When we come back , it 'll be your turn . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @!BURNS : About the violence in France , and my comment that the reasons for it are complicated , here 's Loren from Creve Coeur , Missouri , who disagrees : " Islamic terrorists with bin Laden or our oil money blow up buildings with people in there . Islamic terrorists without much money torch cars and such . It sees simple to me . " About the lies that former serviceman Jimmy Massey apparently told about U.S. military @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Texas : " I went to school in Pearland , Texas , with Jimmy Massey . He was a friend of mine back then . The point of this is to tell you he was the same then as he is now ... He blew things way out of proportion . He always had a fascination with Vietnam and the protests . " About the increase in sexual content on primetime TV , here is Roberta from Vernon , Connecticut : " I applaud the panel with their take on sex on TV . As a grandmother of three boys , I am appalled at the amount of sex and skimpy dress on television . Sometimes there is very little left to the imagination , and I wonder what it is doing to these young and impressionable imaginations . " Finally , since this is our last program before Thanksgiving , here is an e-mail that all five of us can be thankful for . It 's from Randy , she lives in Holden , Louisiana : " To both Cal and Jim . Brilliant . Correct . Funny . Keep @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ disagree , you 're very fair and smart . I am very glad to hear you are influencing other journalists as a teacher . To Neal , I agree with you more than I should , which probably means you 're real smart , too . To Eric Burns , I ca n't tell what your views are , so you must be the very best in the business at what you do . " Or just someone who ca n't make up his mind what his views are . But thank you , Randy . On behalf of all of us , thank you very much . Now , here 's our address . It is newswatch 
##17156 ERIC @!BURNS , FOX NEWS HOST : This week , on " FOX News Watch , " Bob Woodward joins the cast of the CIA leak story . The Senate wants you to know more about Iraq . The furor over fairness and balance at PBS . Ted Koppel leaves " Nightline . " And " People " magazine names me the sexiest man on " FOX News Watch . " No it did n't . But we 'll get into that after the headlines . @(NEWSBREAK) @!BURNS : If " People " magazine had named me the sexiest man on " FOX News Watch , " these people would have been distant runners up : Jim Pinkerton of " Newsday " , syndicated columnist Cal Thomas , Jane Hall of the American University , who was of course was never in the running to begin with . @!JANE-HALL-AMERICA : Thank you . @!BURNS : And media writer Neal Gabler . I 'm Eric Burns . " FOX News Watch " is coming right up . He has been called the most famous reporter in America . But @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . He was forced to apologize to his bosses at " The Washington Post " for not telling them that he had learned the name of a CIA operative from a Bush administration source more than two years ago . Neal , the source - or rather , the CIA operative , of course , Valerie Plame . The first thing that occurs to me about this , before we talk specifically about Woodward , is that the Bush administration really wanted to get this name out there , did n't it ? @!NEAL-GABLER-MEDIA : You 're right . Well . @!BURNS : The Bush administration talked to a lot of journalists - tried to use a lot of journalists ( INAUDIBLE ) . @!GABLER : But here 's the interesting thing for me : they did n't have to go to FOX News . They did n't have to go to Bob Novak . They went to the mainstream press . They went to Tim Russert of NBC , they went to Judy Miller of " The New York Times " , they went to Bob Woodward of " The @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ which they operated . The assumption under which they operated was that they could go to the mainstream press , and the mainstream press would do their bidding . @(CROSSTALK) @!GABLER : There was an unholy alliance . @!BURNS : Woodward - Woodward and Miller , Jim , did n't - did n't go with the story . @!HALL : And neither did Tim Russert. @!JIM-PINKERTON- " NE : Right . Right . Yes , take that , Neal . @(LAUGHTER) @!GABLER : Well , Miller said she was working on a story . @!PINKERTON : OK , well , fair enough . But , I got to tell you , I am not a Woodward fan . I have criticized on this show in the past for the $5 million sale of papers to the University of Texas . I think that Deep Throat was kind of a - a little bit of a hustle and a put-up job . However , on this one , I do n't understand what the controversy is about . I do n't understand - I 'm sure Neal will explain me - explain @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ government - if you get a secret scoop , I do n't think it 's your job to go turn it over to the government to go confess . I thought the whole point was that reporters are supposed to keep secrets and confidences . @!GABLER : No , and I 'll tell you . @(CROSSTALK) @!GABLER : Let me just explain to you very quickly - because it 's not their job to keep secrets and confidences . A reporter 's job is to serve the public , not to serve the Bush administration . @(CROSSTALK) @!BURNS : It would not - it would not have served the public to reveal Valerie Plame 's name . Is n't that what we all would agree on ? @(CROSSTALK) @!HALL : Can I get in here ? Can I say something here ? @!BURNS : Yes , Jane . Go ahead . @!HALL : OK . He - as far as I can tell , he - now he says - and I do n't want to get into a whole thing here - he says he 's - he - he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know , the threat of going to jail at " The Washington Post . " The thing I do n't understand - it 's - it 's a question in my mind : if he was sitting there , knowing that his own colleagues were facing jail and his own paper was wrestling with what to do about this , how can you not tell your bosses ? And it does appear that he - that he was outed by a source . And I would bet whoever went and told the prosecutor , the special prosecutor , wants to help Scooter Libby . I mean , this thing is so convoluted - and he was also on " Larry King Live " saying he did n't have anything to say about this , and he 's been criticizing this investigation . @!CAL-THOMAS-SYNDIC : Jane . @!HAL0 : . disingenuously. @!THOMAS-.makes-exac# Woodward has a standard , which is to say no standard , at " The Washington Post , " that no one else in journalism , much less that newspaper , enjoys . How can he do these things and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or not , being indicted when you know that you were the first one who got that name . And I agree with Neal : the job of a journalist is not to serve anything except the public . He 's serving himself on this . @!BURNS : But wait a minute . Jim - Jim is right , is n't he though ? It - so what if he 's - if he got the name beforehand . The point is , the right leaker was named . @!THOMAS : But he - but as Jane said , he was on " Larry King " making all of these comments about the special prosecutor when he had information that could have been useful . @!PINKERTON : Woodward is a skunk . Let 's stipulate that . However . @!BURNS : Woodward is a skunk ? @!PINKERTON : I 'll say it , at least . But let 's just add also that the gist of where Neal and Jane seem to be headed is , is that when the government investigates you , you 're supposed to go confess to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I did n't say - I said tell his bosses . @(CROSSTALK) @!HALL : I said tell Lynn Downey , his editor . @!PINKERTON : Who cares ? What difference - it 's - what difference does it make to tell his boss .. @!HALL : Your own colleagues are facing jail , and you do n't bother to tell your .. @!PINKERTON : But then - but then - but then Downey - if Woodward had told his boss at " The Post , " then his boss at " The Post " would have the same burden of telling Fitzgerald . @(CROSSTALK) @!BURNS : We 're not criticizing Woodward here for not going public with Valerie Plame 's name . @!GABLER : Oh no . No . No . No. @!BURNS : We 're criticizing him internally for not talking to the people he worked with about this . @!GABLER : I 'm criticizing him because he was sitting on a giant story when it served the Bush administration , and then he revealed it when it served the Bush administration . This is a lackey for the Bush @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are supposed to come up , you 're supposed to go and tell your editor these sources before they get into print . @!BURNS : It 's time for a break . We will be back with this : @!ANNOUNCER : Could the negative press out of Iraq be caused by information lockout ? The Senate wants a change . " FOX News Watch " has the details next . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @!END-# 
##17157 ERIC @!BURNS , FOX NEWS HOST : This week , we hear from newsmakers about the news that was made about them . We hear from the White House , we hear from the men rebuilding Iraq , we hear from Scooter Libby 's attorney , and from Comedy Central 's " The Daily Show , " and more . And you will hear from us about the " FOX News Watch " turkey awards . First the headlines , then us. @(NEWSBREAK) @!BURNS : Need another half hour to digest your leftovers ? Then sit back , stash the remote under the sofa cushion and let these four people get your gastric juices flowing : Jim Pinkerton of " Newsday " , syndicated columnist Cal Thomas , Jane Hall of the American University , and media writer Neal Gabler . I 'm Eric Burns . " FOX News Watch " is coming right up . White House spokesperson Scott McClellan in 2003 , on whether or not Vice President Cheney , Karl Rove and Lewis " Scooter " Libby had any involvement in the CIA leak case @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ made , and that 's exactly what happened in the case of these three individuals . And that 's why I spoke with them , so that I could come back to you and say that they were not involved . @(@!END-VIDEO-CLIP) @!BURNS : Two years later , ABC news correspondent on McClellan 's credibility . @(BEGIN-VIDEO-CLIP) @!TERRY-MORAN-ABC-N : There 's been a wound to your credibility here . A falsehood , wittingly or unwittingly , was told from this podium . @(@!END-VIDEO-CLIP) @!BURNS : Neal , are the media getting tougher than they have been in the past on this administration , and did we just hear an example of that ? @!NEAL-GABLER-MEDIA : Well , 36 percent popularity approval ratings will make the media an awful lot tougher . The media follow , they do n't lead . And yes , we 're seeing an example of that . But in all fairness to Scott McClellan - first of all , presumably , he was lied to , number one . And number two , there is no press spokesman who for this administration who 's going to do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , in a sense , his job . Now it 's also his job to kind of massage the press , and he 's not very good at that . But ultimately , he 's in an untenable situation . @!BURNS : Which means the press 's job , then , Jane , I guess is to ask progressively tougher questions . @!JANE-HALL-AMERICA : Well , you know , I think they should be asking progressively tougher questions , perhaps , of the administration . And McClellan is in a terrible situation . Mike McCurry managed to sort of charm his way through the . @!BURNS : Bill Clinton 's press secretary . @!HALL : Bill Clinton 's press secretary - managed to sort of charm his way through a not-easy landmine of the Monica Lewinsky case , and not really lie and somehow maintain his popularity . Maybe that shows bias on the part of the press . McClellan does n't seem to have been that popular from the get go , and now they 're really after him . @!CAL-THOMAS-SYNDIC : I agree with Neal on the decline in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to a lot of the media . When it was up 70 , 80 percent , they were scared to death . But there 's something else here : we do n't actually know what the truth is in this whole leak case yet , particularly with the Bob Woodward revelation that we talked about last week , concerning that he , in fact , now knew , apparently from anybody else . We do n't know who his source was . So it may come out that McClellan was telling the truth as he knew it at the time . @!JIM-PINKERTON- " NE : In 1974 , Jerald Terhorst , who was President Ford 's press secretary , set the gold standard for honorable press secretarying when he was asked , Is there any chance that President Ford would pardon former President Nixon ? Terhorst said , No , never happened . Ford pardoned him , Terhorst resigned . Not because he was lying , but because he felt like he was in a position where he had inadvertently misled the reporters , and he resigned to great honor and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Scott McClellan , has met that standard . @!BURNS : And some should have resigned ? @!PINKERTON : I - well , let 's put it this way : I ca n't imagine why any reporter would want to go to the White House press room and hear what Scott McClellan has to say . @!BURNS : Also on the CIA leak case , another unhappy newsmaker : Scooter Libby 's attorney Ted Wells . @(BEGIN-VIDEO-CLIP) @!TED-WELLS-SCOTER- : We do not intend to try this case in the press . Mr. Libby intends to clear his good name by using the judicial process . @(@!END-VIDEO-CLIP) @!BURNS : Is the reason for the laughter that went on during that sound byte and continues , the fact , Cal , that we heard a line like this so much before , or is there something else involved here ? @!THOMAS : We hear it all the time . Of course they 're going to try it in the press . @!BURNS : But it 's a fair - but it 's a fair thing to say . @!THOMAS : Well , it 's @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this , and you notice it they 're saying it in front of microphones and cameras . @!GABLER : Yes , that 's why I was laughing . I was laughing at the postmodern ( INAUDIBLE ) here . I 'm going to tell the press right now that I am not going to try this case in front of you , right now , as I 'm talking to you right now . @!PINKERTON : And , to add a quip to that , when the Woodward revelations came out a week or so ago . @!GABLER : Exactly . @!PINKERTON : . and Woodward was revealed to have also been involved in this , Wells got out - I 'm not sure on TV , but certainly in the media , and said , Well , see , this proves that the case was all cluttered up ( INAUDIBLE ) - not because anybody thinks that Woodward was directly involved in what Libby was up to , just because it creates this penumbra of emanations about , you know , other stuff which Wells thinks may eventually ( INAUDIBLE @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's going to blame you if you use the media right now to get your views across . @!HALL : OK , and while blasting the media , right ? You know , I - this - this whole case , really - the twists and turns of this have revealed the way certain elites talk to each other in Washington journalism . And journalists are very much a part of this Wilson investigation , I think unfortunately for the First Amendment . But to say you 're not going to try it in the press , you 're talking to the press , and the press being subpoenaed . And they 're part of the story . And then there 's a new revelation of a new journalist - and he 's right , Libby 's attorney absolutely embraced that . @!BURNS : But there is an extent to which - whether or not he says , Cal , we 're going to try this in the press - the press does try cases in the press , which is a separate but related issues . @!THOMAS : Yes . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we have n't talked about - the Chinese scientist who was basically destroyed by the media , and Walter Pincus of " The Washington Post " has a source that he wo n't reveal , and he 's an under an order from a federal judge to reveal it , or we could get the Judith Miller thing played all over again . So there 's another side : a person 's character can be destroyed by the media when he or she does n't have an adequate opportunity to respond . @!BURNS : Jim , is - well , let 's be honest about this - part of this is the fact that there are three 24-hour-a-day cable news stations who can not all their time with - with fact . And so - who fill part of their time with contact - I 'm sorry , with - with comments is what I meant to say . @!PINKERTON : Thank God for Natalee Holloway . But - in terms of ( INAUDIBLE ) . But you 're - you 're - but look , this feeding-frenzy phenomenon precedes cable @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ - in the - in Ray Donovan , President Reagan 's secretary of Labor , famously was indicted and acquitted - acquitted of whatever they accused him of corruption-wise . And he said , OK , that 's great . I 'm acquitted . Now where do I go to get my reputation back ? That was circa 1983 , long before cable news . @!BURNS : Which was a reference to all the negative coverage in the media before , Neal , the verdict is ( INAUDIBLE ) . @!GABLER : I mean , speculation has always been part of what the media does . It 's just - it comes with the territory . @!BURNS : So do commercial breaks . We have to take one . We 'll be back with more newsmakers on the news that they 're making . @!ANNOUNCER : Is this the face America trusts for news ? Is this a joke ? Maybe , maybe not . Stick around for more " FOX News Watch . " @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @!END-# 